NSW Police Association comments on gun control
The Morning Show
2BL radio
23 February 1999
PRESENTER - SALLY SLOANE....First up, senseless carnage, as no less than twelve people are killed or injured by gunfire. And again the question: what do we have to do in our society to stop people getting hold of guns and killing people? Well, the answer: very little, it seems, no matter how many illegal guns the Government buys back from people and smashes them to pulp.
I thought I'd talk to the police this morning about their role, in an atmosphere where a lot of people and politicians will be calling for more police, more law and order measures, and tighter gun controls.
Now, Mark Burgess is President of the Police Association and he joins me on the line this morning. And I will also be crossing to Michael Dudley, from the Coalition for Gun Control. But, firstly, Mark Burgess, good morning.
MARK BURGESS....Good morning.
SLOANE....Well, what can be done about this gun violence?
BURGESS....Oh, look, it's.. it's a.. a very, very difficult task, cno doubt. Obviously, there's n.. a numerous amount of guns out there that, oftentimes, unfortunately fall into the hands of the wrong people, and the result of the last few days is evidence of that.
SLOANE....Yes, and I suppose it's something that we're never g.. going to be able to get rid of, are we?
BURGESS....Well, I would suggest not. We'll.. w.. with all the good endeavours, we'll certainly reduce the likelihood of it happening, but I would suggest that if.. you know, the.. the opportunity to prevent it entirely is probably almost zero.
LOANE....Yes. Mark Burgess, what about more police?
BURGESS....Well, look, the.. interestingly enough, before yesterday's carnage, we'd met with Ken Marslew, from the anti- violence group, Enough is Enough, and had agreed to do a joint pre.. press conference this morning calling on both sides of politics to look at more.. or measures about crime reduction or crime prevention, and, of course, then the.. the incidents of yesterday, I suppose, have highlighted it all the more. We're saying very clearly, we need more police in New South Wales, two and a half thousand more, to enable us to do the job that thecommunity expects, and that's to reduce crime.
SLOANE....Yes. Now, of course, I think after the last election, you got five hundred more police.. or.. or we got five hundred more police. Are they just not then enough?
BURGESS....Well, look, now, what's.. what's happened over the last four years since the last election, there's been a whole range of changes in.. in the landscape for policing. We've had a Royal Commission which has had a.. a great number of recommendations, we've had a reform of the police service, we've had a number of legislative changes that have all had an impact on our ability to meet the needs of the community, and we're saying to.. to both sides of politics, we agree that we got five hundred police last time, but to actually allow us to go about reducing the crime rate - and that's what the community wants - to undertake preventative actions to.. to prevent crime, to teach young people about anti-violence, we need more police.
SLOANE....Yes. And what sort of role will these police be.. be doing, if you do get extra police?
BURGESS....Well, look, we've looked overseas at some of the best research, and it's quite interesting when you go to places like the United States where they've had, now, six consecutive years of crime reduction in the United States, one of the things that stands out between them and us is, of course, the number of police. The Clinton administration have put a hundred thousand extra police across the US, and, as a result, you've seen significant drops in crime rates. Now, we're saying let's use the strategies that they're using overseas, let's take the best.. best practice policing principles from other jurisdictions overseas as well, let's get involved with community groups like Enough is Enough to talk about crime prevention measures, let's get into the schools, into the youth groups, to talk a.. talk to young people about anti-violence, and let's go about reducing the crime rate like they've done, successfully, overseas.
SLOANE....Mm. Are you talking about the zero policy.. zero tolerance policy?
BURGESS....No, well, we don't talk about zero tolerance. And, in fact, it's quite interesting when you look at what comes out of New York, they don't talk about zero tolerance either; they talk about quality of life policing, and that's attacking those types of crimes that detract from the quality of life for the citizens in that area. And so we're not talking about zero tolerance as such, we're talking about crime reduction and crime prevention.
SLOANE....Yes. What sort of measures can you take to.. to.. to prevent crime? I mean, what are you talking about here when you say you're going into schools and working with community groups?
BURGESS....Well, look, groups like Enough is Enough have done an enormous amount over the last few years, where they've gone into schools with various programs. They're actually in gaols at the moment as well, talking to gaol inmates about crime reduction, crime prevention and what we can do as a community, because this is a community problem, it's not just a police problem.. what we can do to reduce crime rates. The difficulty we have at the moment, that our police officers have in New South Wales, is that we're stretched to the limit and we haven't got the resources to commit to crime prevention, we've only got the resources at the moment to commit to reactive policing.
SLOANE....Yes. I suppose the question, Mark Burgess, is: how does more policemen mean less random violence? Because we're talking about.. I think the.. the incidents in the last day or two have been really random acts, haven't they, I.. I guess acts that nobody could have.. could have predicted?
BURGESS....Oh, look.. a.. and.. and s.. and these random acts will happen, I.. and I don't know what we're ever going to do to prevent that from happening in the future, but what we can do, we can be successful in stopping people from becoming successful criminals, we can actually have strategies in place to prevent people becoming se.. successful at being a criminal in the State of New South Wales, and we can talk to young people who may be going down the wrong path and try and bring them back, and I think if we can do those things then I think we've done the job that the community expects.
SLOANE....And the community also wants a more visible police presence, don't they?
BURGESS....Oh, look, th.. this is what this is all about and.. look, and a more visible police presence deters people from committing crime. There's no doubt that in.. in busy cities like Sydney, and in many regional centres across New South Wales, the sight of police officers in uniforms, in marked patrol cars, is going to have a detr.. a deterrent effect on people who might want to commit crimes.
SLOANE....Yes. It's thirteen past nine. I'm talking to Mark Burgess, the President of the Police Association. What about tighter gun controls, Mark?
BURGESS....Look, it's.. it's always an issue. I mean, look, we've been supportive of the.. of the gun control legislation to date. We want to continue to support that. In fact, we're totally opposed to any watering down of any guns laws. As I said, the difficulty you've got is situations like this happen; one would hope that they never would, but I think we've really got to go into.. into this with our eyes open. Potentially they will happen in the future. Our role is to minimise the.. the likelihood of our members being injured in these sort of circumstances and, of course, the community.
SLOANE....Mm. Of course, the Coalition has.. has signalled that they might water down slightly some of the gun laws, reducing the twenty-eight day sort of cooling off period, I think that's what they're looking at. Have they made any signs of.. of offering more police? Has the Labor Party?
BURGESS....Well, look, both sides of.. we've.. we've put this proposition to both sides and we're eagerly awaiting now their policy announcements. We're hoping, in the lead-up to the election, that both sides will come out and commit to the numbers we're talking about. Just yesterday we met with the Premier and this afternoon we're meeting with the Leader of the Opposition again to put our case forward, and we're continuing to meet with candidates in marginal seats. But we're pushing the line, this is about crime reduction, crime prevention.
SLOANE....All right. Mark Burgess, we'll leave it there. Thanks for your time this morning.
BURGESS....Thank you very much.
SLOANE....OK. Mark Burgess, the President of the Police Association.
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