Ian Gilfillan wants ban on paintball/under 18's using firearms
Leon Byner show
5AA radio
26 November 1998
PRESENTER - LEON BYNER....The Australian Democrats will introduce a Bill to establish South Australia as the first and only state to comply with proposed national firearm restrictions. Let's talk to Ian Gilfillan. Ian, why are you doing this?
IAN GILFILLAN....Leon, most people in Australia, after the Port Arthur massacre, felt that we really needed to be do something substantial to minimise firearm risks to the population and steer right away from the gun culture.
BYNER....You don't think the Buyback Scheme was enough?
GILFILLAN....Well, it was never intended to be the only.. the only measure. What.. what I'm doing, in fact, is just fulfilling the undertakings which were agreed by all the Police Ministers in the meeting they had after the Port Arthur massacre, and so I think it's fair enough that we should honour those undertakings.
BYNER....OK. What are they?
GILFILLAN....They're relatively minor in the overall scheme of things, but they're still significant. The.. the first, and perhaps the most significant, was that.. or will be, anyone who's convicted of an intentional act of violence in the last five years will be ineligible to acquire a firearms licence. So that..
BYNER....Yeah?
GILFILLAN....would require that they would automatically lose their licence and the police would be empowered to.. to search for and confiscate firearms. The other one which is significant is that there will specifically be no issuing of licence to a person just on the grounds of acquiring a firearm for so-called personal protection.
BYNER....Well, most people, when they go to get one, wouldn't say that even if that was their reason, would they?
GILFILLAN....They may not, but then if they don't have that as a legal reason, they'd have to have something else which would justify it, if they're going to go through..
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....the current legislation..
BYNER....Yes.
GILFILLAN....Leon, and that.. that is quite restrictive. I think that we have to recognise that the legislative amendments that have been brought in now have been very effective in tightening down the areas where people can legally own firearms.
BYNER....Ian, shooters claim.. I.. in fact, I had a couple of callers yesterday who were very passionate about this, and..
GILFILLAN....Mm.
BYNER....and that's understandable, because they are very passionate of their sport.
GILFILLAN....Mmhm.
BYNER....They believe that they're getting the raw end of the stick as far as the bad publicity is concerned; they say that they're responsible sports people; they say that the crooks in the community are not the same people that.. that buy guns either because they're antiques or collect them, or just shoot with them for sport.
GILFILLAN....Well, that.. that argument.. their claims that.. they've been saying that for twenty years..
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....as long as there's been any move. And, in fact, my Bill, Leon, doesn't restrict those people operating in sports clubs or shooting associations. That.. that argument was all resolved some time back, so although they may be saying it to you, the only measure which could come under some renewed or different origin of complaint..
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....is the move to ban the paintball firearms games.
BYNER....Now, tell me about this.
GILFILLAN....It seemed to.. to us.. and it's within the legal concept of firearms control.. because the paintball games.. do you know, how they're played?
BYNER....Well, basically, instead of shooting somebody, you.. you.. well, you shoot at them, but you.. you.. you splat [sic] them paint.
GILFILLAN....Well, yes, the actual missile is..
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....a small ball..
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....which actually, on impact..
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....explodes and.. and leaves a coloured mark.
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....And I haven't actually played it, so I can only say from second-hand, but..
BYNER....So, you want these games banned?
GILFILLAN....Yes.
BYNER....Yeah. And do you think that will get wide.. broad s.. community support?
GILFILLAN....Well, we'll see, won't we? I..
BYNER....[ Laugh ] I think we will, yes.
GILFILLAN....I think it'll get, certainly, widespread opposition from the.. the paintball promoters, Leon. But I think if.. ifyou contemplate this: you take a registered firearm, go out into open space and stalk a.. another human being, aim the firearm at that person and.. and hit them with a missile, it certainly doesn't fit into the anti-gun culture which, I think, we have gone a long way..
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....and I congratulate the governments around Australia and.. and the population.. we have gone a long way to steer away from that American gun culture.
BYNER....OK, so why is it necessary for you to bring in all these legislations, if you like..
GILFILLAN....Mm.
BYNER....when they were already agreed to? Are.. are.. are states dragging their feet on this, are they?
GILFILLAN....Yes, they are, and in fact they are slipping back a bit as the memory of Port Arthur dims..
BYNER....Mm.
GILFILLAN....sadly. The.. the.. the real focus of attention of that reaction is the Bill brought in by the One Nation Leader in the Queensland Parliament, which is a retrograde step, quite a significant move back from..
BYNER....Mm.
GILFILLAN....the legislation agreed.
BYNER....Yeah. So, you're confident this'll get up, or do you think it's going to have a very healthy debate?
GILFILLAN....I.. well, I think it'll have a healthy debate..
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....but I think that from the m.. the comments I've heard, most of these proposals people have accepted are commonsense. The one I didn't mention was that anyone under eighteen would not be able to hold a firearm licence, although they could shoot in a competitive sporting context.
BYNER....I wasn't aware you could now.
GILFILLAN....Beg your pardon?
BYNER....I wasn't aware you could now if you're under eighteen.
GILFILLAN....Yes.
BYNER....You can?
GILFILLAN....Mmhm.
BYNER....You can hold a firearm licence if.. if you're under eighteen?
GILFILLAN....That's correct. Yeah.
BYNER....Yeah. So, a.. again, you're going to put this up when?
GILFILLAN....I've introduced a Bill..
BYNER....Yep.
GILFILLAN....it came in yesterday..
BYNER....Yep.
GILFILLAN....so the Bill is now public property.
BYNER....Yes.
GILFILLAN....And I'm not pushing for the debate to be concluded before Christmas, it can carry on into the New Year, February- March..
BYNER....Yep.
GILFILLAN....and I would look forward to it being passed then and it can serve as an example to the other states.
BYNER....Mm. OK, let me ask you this: How much support do you reckon it's going to get from the other parties?
GILFILLAN....I.. I can't really give you a clear answer, Leon, but quite often, if I introduce a measure that is.. quickly going to be opposed, they let me know in no uncertain fashion, and they haven't done that, so I'm hopeful that we may well see it passed by unanimous support through the Parliament.
BYNER....You think the public supports you unanimously on this?
GILFILLAN....You'll probably get a better idea of that from people who may ring your program. I think the general public still have very healthy concerns about the.. i.. in.. well, maybe the return to gun culture, but certainly the spread of firearms in the community. I don't think the public see firearms as a.. a natural part of the furniture of the Australian home.
BYNER....OK. I want you to stay on the line, Ian, because I want to gauge the public perception of what we're talking about today and their opinion on 8224 0000.
GILFILLAN....Mmhm.
BYNER....I'll tell you who's called in, from the Combined Shooters Association, the President, Michael Hudson. Michael, what's your reaction to Ian Gilfillan's move?
MICHAEL HUDSON....Well, we consider Mr Gilfillan's move to be a bit outdated. Clearly, the whole debate on firearms ownership and use is.. is effectively over, the changes have been made, and as best any state can, South Australia is meeting every expectation of the Police Ministers' Council resolution. After all, it took a two year argument, one could say, on these issues, and really, the.. the issues that Ian's raised are adequately covered by the legislation that we have.
BYNER....Ian?
GILFILLAN....Oh well, if they are, then obviously the Bill is redundant. But the Parliamentary Council who drafted the Bill agree that, currently, South Australian legislation do [sic] not cover the points that I've included.. that I outlined for you, Leon.
BYNER....So, you're saying that Michael has now got a.. got a debate on his hands? And I guess we'll know that. We're talking with Ian Gilfillan. The Australian Democrats todayintroduced a Bill to establish this state as the first and only state to comply with proposed national firearm restrictions. What do you think? Ian Gilfillan says that guns are not really part of the environmental furniture of South Australia. What do you feel about that notion? 8224 0000. John, how do you think on this?
CALLER - JOHN....Actually, I'm very concerned that we're talking about having a.. a non-gun mentality and we're worrying about the guns themselves: what about all these computer games that children are encouraged to play where.. where you're actually stalking other human beings, blowing them to bits and scoring a high score for doing so?
BYNER....Yes, that's a good point, John. Ian, what do you think about that?
GILFILLAN....Leon, it is a good point, and I think it's an area where other people should seriously address what is the acceptable style and nature of children's games, videos, TV programs.
BYNER....Yes.
GILFILLAN....But it's not the ambit of firearms control legislation. Those devices are not firearms; they don't really come in with [sic] the purview of this legislation, Leon.
BYNER....That's true, but.. but again, you can't get away from John's point, can you, that.. that if we're thinking about it in.. in terms of the sorts of things that are commensurate with the kind of culture we've got, then surely violent computer games have got to be part of what we discuss?
GILFILLAN....Well, they.. they are part of a community discussion, I agree with you..
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....a.. a hundred percent, but I'm.. I'm just making the point that I don't believe that that, on its own merits, actually impacts on the Bill that I've got before Parliament, which is strictly for firearms.
BYNER....Yeah.
GILFILLAN....I think that parents, communities, schools, the actual media, whoever's involved in providing material..
BYNER....Mm.
GILFILLAN....should think, "Well, what effect is this having on the community?". I think that's a discussion which is very important and I'm concerned about it as well.
BYNER....OK, let's go now to the Sporting Shooters. Gary Fleetwood has called in. Hi, Gary. What would you like to say?
GARY FLEETWOOD....Yeah, Leon, I wonder what sort of impact upon the rural sector this sort of legislation may have. I heard Ian say, earlier on, that people under eighteen could get an exemption for competition: I mean, what about the man on the land? Ian's got a background himself on.. on rural matters; I'd like to hear his comments and then come back to you.
BYNER....Ian?
GILFILLAN....I don't think that the actual people that are under eighteen, to have firearm licence as such for specific use on the land, is in.. in very high demand, and I don't believe that the occasions when, say, an under-eighteen person is involved in a commercial activity in a rural context and needs to u.. a fire.. use a firearm would be excluded, but it would be a.. an exemption rather than an automatic right.
BYNER....Gary?
FLEETWOOD....Well, I'm reading the document that Mr Gilfillan set out, and it's quite clear here, Section 39, Regulation 15, para 4a - A person under the age of eighteen years to fire a firearm - and it says, "A Regulation must not be made under this Section or under any other provision of this Act that would permit a person under the age of eighteen to fire a firearm".
GILFILLAN....Can I s.. make a point there, Leon? And I apologise..
BYNER....Sure.
GILFILLAN....to.. to that caller, because that was a fault in the draft that we circulated prior to introduction, and the Bill that was introduced was clear in the intention that I had had right through, that it was a restriction purely on holding the licence, not on the ability to shoot a firearm.
BYNER....OK, we'll take some more calls here on 8224 0000 with Ian Gilfillan. Let's now go to John. Hi, John.
CALLER - JOHN....Yeah, g'day. I'm rather disillusioned with all of these politicians. I'm just an average Joe Blow, I'm self-employed, I work, I've got a family, I live out.. out in the sticks somewhat, and I'm just basically sick and tired of politicians bashing everyone over the head with.. with these ideas and saying everyone who holds a gun is a bad guy.
Now, one of the.. some of the points I want to point out is [sic] as.. Mr Gil.. Gilfillan's saying about juniors.. minors having gun licences, and.. I.. I learnt to hold a gun when I was as tall as the gun itself. My dad taught me to respect it and I've been bought [sic] up that way to respect it and treat it with the utmost care. I'm doing that to my kids to give them an upbringing and an understanding of guns, not necessarily to go out there and, you know, becoming [sic] a mass murderer, you know? And then, as you go.. about mass murderers, I think.. well, we've got one idiot, Martin Bryant, who went out there and killed su.. you know, thir.. twenty- five, thirty-odd people. I feel sorry for those people, but don't.. please, please, don't hold one idiot, you know, to ransom for the rest of Australians who are legal, law-abiding citizens with guns.
BYNER....Thanks indeed, John. Let's go to the Barossa Valley. Brad, what would you like to say on the issue that Ian Gilfillan is talking about today?
CALLER - BRAD....Yeah, g'day, Leon. I.. I've got to concur with the guy that was just on just then. I.. be.. being up in the Valley, I've.. I've actually own.. I own a semi-automatic weapon..
BYNER....Yep.
BRAD....and I.. i.. it.. it upset me that.. to see these fellows, these bikers in Western Australia, with.. with all these automatic weapons and things. I mean, it's just out of control that.. that your good guys like us have.. have to wear the blame for these other guys. It's obvious that the legislation hasn't worked anyway.
BYNER....Yeah. Ian, you want to comment on this?
GILFILLAN....Well, this debate about gun control generally, Leon, was the original legislation; I mean, that was dealt with, whatever it was, a couple of years ago..
BYNER....Yep.
GILFILLAN....and I don't mind revisiting it. But I want to make the point: My Bill is minor in that context. It's just implementing some of the lesser matters which weren't addressed in the original legislation. So, with respect to those people who are making those points about decent people owning firearms, we've had that debate, that debate has been dealt with by the people of Australia, the Parliaments right across Australia, and they have decided we need this form of legislation.
BYNER....OK, let's.. let's talk to Jonathan. Jonathan, what would you like to say on this?
CALLER - JONATHAN....Oh, just one quick thing is, you want to watch out if you've got a water pistol, because that'll be the next thing they're trying to ban. They try and ban everything else, so I'm assuming that'll be next.
BYNER....OK, let's talk to Tony, the taxi driver. What do you think, Tone [sic]?
CALLER - TONY....Good afternoon, Leon. How are you?
BYNER....Good, thanks.
TONY....I think there's a greater issue at stake here, and both in the Senate and the Upper Houses, particularly in this state, the minority political parties th.. think they have some God- given right to rule with a minority vote of.. of six to ten percent, and they're continually interfering with a fifty-one percent government. And I think after the last twenty years of the Democrats, it's time a petition was got up to get the Government to change our electoral system so that all Upper House seats contest every election the same as Lower Houses, so that the Democrats face the same political mor.. mortality as a lower government. And you have somebody like Meg Lees who could interfere with the next three Federal Governments before she has to face ter.. a.. a.. the v.. poll, and you have here in South Australia, say, like.. Nick Xenophon, who's got another seven and a half years to run before he has to face any backlash from the electoral [sic] and it's just not.. it's not on. It's about time that these Upper Houses were made to face the same political fate as the rest of the government.
BYNER....Well, Tony, thank you very much for calling, and also everybody else who rang in today on this, and also to Ian Gilfillan, whom [sic], as you've heard from the Australian Democrats, has introduced a Bill to establish South Australia as the first and only state to comply with proposed firearm restrictions. Certainly, I'm surprised we didn't get a lot more women calling us today, 'cause I know that there.. there are lots of females I know who are not gun owners but they feel very strongly about this. And we'll certainly be happy to talk with you o.. on this if you want to ring later on 5AA, but I want to thank those people who called in this afternoon.
ITEM ENDS
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